Curse

Robbert Monga · Jul 26, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Nobody mentioned [Virulence] yet? Kinda craptacular in PvP, but in PvE... I have my Olias set for condition bombing - works like a charm on fleshy creatures. [Foul Feast][Plague Sending][Weaken Armor][Rip Enchantment][Virulence][Epidemic](note some popup descriptions are out of date)
Combine that with either myself or a hero inflicting deep wound and/or daze.

On a side note I think part of the problem is that SS is retardishly overpowered in PvE (though lately been overshadowed by PvE-only skills *cough* Ursan *cough*) and people expect same kind of effect from other necro skills, which is just silly.

Moloch Vein · Jul 26, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

I'd like to clarify something. I'm looking for an inherent necromancer elite here. I think it's pretty conclusively proven that Assassin's Promise is the best elite overall for a necromancer hexer in PvE.

As for the AoE, "increased attack speed in HM" thing about Spiteful. We all know this. The _problem_ with Spiteful Spirit is stated, namely, it not being compatible with an offensive hexer bar. However, I guess I have to clarify it a little.

The strongest N hex nukes in the game are Barbs and Mark of Pain. Mark of Pain is stronger than Spiteful Spirit for two reasons: One, it deals slightly more damage. Two, more importantly, your team is going to hit the called target more often than he will be able to hit or use a skill himself. Mark also casts in 1 second while SS casts in 2.

The same is true with Barbs for single-target damage.

Now, the question is of course, "well, why not bring both?" The answer is that any good team wouldn't _need_ both Mark and Spiteful. You target Mark, the stronger spell, in a mob centre. For Spiteful to be useful there needs to be several mob centres. Sure, you can target it at a stray foe, but it will hardly get the mileage that an elite hex deserves.

Addendum: Suggested Soul Binder bar for PvE: [build prof=N/Any name "General Soul Bind Necromancer" curses=12+1+1 soulr=12+1][Mindbender][Soul Bind][Mark of Pain][Rigor Mortis][Barbs][Reckless Haste][Signet of Lost Souls][Air of Superiority][/build]

odly · Jul 26, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I actually think [[Icy veins] should give good synergy for a barbs curses build. But It hasn't convinced me when I tried it out. Damage output was just not high enough to my liking.

I still prefer putting SS on a backline ranger/paragon or anything else while target calling and taking down things with barbs etc. SS works great in that way imo. It's not a good elite if you put it on the target your going to kill in a a sec anyway, but it add's great pressure on other targets, sometimes killing one or multiple targets while you target others.

Off course you could go triple attribute and spam discord and necrosis. It's not that hard to get conditions and hexes on a target when playing a necro.

But since your build is based on getting barbs, mark of pain and rigor mortis on called targets I see no real alternative to assassins promise. Soul bind might be not so bad really. At least it's spammable.

jiggles · Jul 26, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

iirc IV is effected by armour. Not the best thing ever.

jayce · Jul 27, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

40 energy
[corrupt enchant] 5 energy

No thanks

actually 30 energy, and your still missing my point.

Jayce Of Underworld

mirri · Jul 27, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

ey all

my thought of replacing of the elite [[Spiteful Spirit]. [[Soul Bind] with low hex and fast recharge of skills like [[Parasitic Bond] and the mesmer skill like [[Wastrel's Worry].

i use the following bar with [[Soul Bind]

[build prof=N/Me name="<Soul Bind>" soulreaping=10+1 curses=11+1+2 dominationmagic=8][Soul Barbs][Soul Bind][Parasitic Bond][Wastrel's Worry][Necrosis][Well of Silence][Signet of Lost Souls][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]

just spam skill 3 and 4 use skill 5 for extra dmg energy regain with 7.

the ress can be a normal ress signet
[[Well of Silence] can change in [[Rip Enchantment].

greets silvana

Carinae · Jul 27, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Addendum: Suggested Soul Binder bar for PvE: [build prof=N/Any name "General Soul Bind Necromancer" curses=12+1+1 soulr=12+1][Mindbender][Soul Bind][Mark of Pain][Rigor Mortis][Barbs][Reckless Haste][Signet of Lost Souls][Air of Superiority][/build]

Consider dropping SoLS and Air of Superiority, or even maybe RH (15e). Pick something like Soul Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor or a combo like Necrosis+Finish Him!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirri

i use the following bar with [[Soul Bind]

[build prof=N/Me name="<Soul Bind>" soulreaping=10+1 curses=11+1+2 dominationmagic=8][Soul Barbs][Soul Bind][Parasitic Bond][Wastrel's Worry][Necrosis][Well of Silence][Signet of Lost Souls][Sunspear Rebirth Signet][/build]

Lose the rez entirely, and add Finish Him! Use Necrosis+Finish Him! together. Look for a hex to replace PB. It's not a bad spell in that role, but then look for one with an actual effect, because if Soul Bind gets removed the whole bar fails.

Neither bar needs SoLS, especially if there is a MM in the party.

--------------------

I like the Soul Bind builds here they have some neat characteristics:

It's a single-target shutdown build that works against all enemies. The effect is the best possible shutdown effect, even better than Daze/Blind. Strong hex-removal defeats it, but any hex removal is dangerous. If SB is removed, the whole shutdown effect breaks. That's a big problem with the second bar listed above (because the hexes don't do much by themselves), less so for the first. Don't run this against Divert. It has a niche, certainly. It shifts the shutdown to the necro and frees up BHA. (for Barrage+GDW)

Sounds great on paper..but how will it translate in-game?

Isn't it enough in most situations just to have GDW+Aidan?

I've been running this, to great effect:
[Necrosis][Finish Him!][Assassin's Promise][Mark of Pain][Barbs][Rigor Mortis][Enfeebling Blood][Great Dwarf Weapon]

14 Curses
13 SR
3 Deadly Arts

The first three skills have a really great synergy with each other. You can pretty much spike every single monster to the ground as fast as you can cast. There's also great synergy between MoP/Barbs/RM. EB is helpful in cases where the melee guys are dangerous, but you can't focus on them initially.

Take Aidan and Devona. Keep GDW on Aidan (and Jin). Plenty of KDs.

Kaida the Heartless · Jul 27, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

The point here, Mirri, is to find a decent elite for the mob-busting damage cannon that is Mark of Pain (and Barbs) in a physical team.

My vote goes with Soul Bind. Everything else is misplaced when placed on the offensive curse bar.

Moloch Vein · Jul 28, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Consider dropping SoLS and Air of Superiority, or even maybe RH (15e). Pick something like Soul Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor or a combo like Necrosis+Finish Him!

Soul Barbs have a long recharge without a powerful effect to go with it (too little damage and to a single target.) Air is to weak-mimic AP effect. SoLS might not be needed. Mindbender is actually mainly a "convenience spell".

If Reckless feels too expensive, Shadow of Fear. Reckless' effect is better but recharge is worse and duration is far worse.

Again, again... my main question is simply to find the best possible _necromancer_ elite for a modern pve hexer bar... the one that is the most universal.

Carinae · Jul 28, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I forgot that the function of Soul Bind has been changed. It doesn't cause KDs anymore, which changes everything.

For a PvE hexer, maybe Discord.?

Kaida the Heartless · Jul 28, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

That's been discussed a bit already. Would require tri-att'ing. Besides, Necrosis does Discord's job pretty well, imo.

AKB48 · Jul 28, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

SS is only good in HM areas where large mobs are present. Since the longer it lives, the more damage it will cause. However, in general pve play, massive mobs aren't so common as to a group of 4-6 monsters. These 4-6 usually separate and choose their own targets(unless they are spellcasters then they tend to group) which makes SS only dealing damage to only 1 or 2 enemies; thus greatly reduces its effect.

Kaida the Heartless · Jul 28, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I think I'll just start running Awaken the Blood so I can get a few extra points of damage out of MoP and Barbs. Screw an elite slot :P

AKB48 · Jul 29, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Be my guest, but i will stick to SS for a bit longer=D